Nothing gets signed on the first day.

The first meeting is a conversation about your family. The fee for your estate plan comes up on the second or the third. Then we put your house into the trust ourselves, which is the step that makes the whole thing work.

Start with a conversation Read first, call later

Phancao & Shaffer, LLPEstate planning, asset protection, elder law, and probateCosta Mesa and Laguna Beach

The eight people of Phancao & Shaffer, LLP, photographed together against a light wall.
Phancao & Shaffer, LLP. Four attorneys and four staff.

You are not late. You are here.

This is smaller than you think, and the first step is a conversation, not a commitment.

So I quit putting it off and I got around to doing it.

Tom Gates, client, on Trust Talk Radio

For years I knew I needed to take care of this important matter, but I didn't know who to 'trust' until I met Shadi.

Dian G., client

My wife and I have been saying for years we need to get our Living Trust in place but never found a lawyer we felt comfortable with.

Michael L., client

Here is the whole process, start to finish, before you call.

Most people find us at one point on this line, holding one problem. It helps to see the rest of it.

(PROCESS SEQUENCE RECONSTRUCTED FROM THE FIRM'S OWN STATEMENTS ACROSS TWELVE YEARS. NO SOURCE STATES IT AS A NAMED SEQUENCE. CONFIRM EACH STEP WITH CLIENT BEFORE PUBLICATION)

  1. The first call

    You call, or you ask us to send the information package first and read it at home.

    Receive our Complimentary Informational Package before hiring an attorney. Upon review, you can make an informed decision on what you and your family need to do!

    From the firm's own website

    Come talk to me. It's not a scary experience, and we'll go over a detailed plan of what you should anticipate as you age gracefully.

    Patrick P. Phancao, from one of his own videos

  2. Before you meet

    We ask for some background before the first meeting.

    Before we even meet, we request some background information and design a plan that fits your particular needs. In essence, we tailor a legal plan just for you!

    From the firm's own website

  3. The first meeting

    The first meeting is a conversation about your family. We get to the paperwork later.

    (IS THE FIRST CONSULTATION FREE, AND IS THAT STILL THE POLICY? CONFIRM WITH CLIENT)

    Most of the time trust attorneys don't charge for an initial consult, and what you mentioned is that we did have a pretty lengthy conversation in the initial meeting, and isn't it true that I think it was like on the second or third meeting that we actually finally talked about a retainer agreement and the fee?

    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, to a client, on Trust Talk Radio

    I have to be honest with you, my staff was starting to worry and wonder. They were like, what's going on with this Tom Gentleman and why is there no agreement and a retainer fee?

    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, same conversation

    There were times when we first got together that we would talk for hours at times without even getting around to talking about the trust itself.

    Tom Gates, client
    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer
    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, founding partner. Trusts, probate, and the long conversations that have to happen before any of it is written down.

  4. Designing the plan

    The plan is usually built around a living trust. It holds your house and your accounts during your life, under your control, so that when you die they pass to the people you named without going through court.

    Alongside it sit a power of attorney and a health care directive, the two documents that say who speaks for you about money and about medical care if you cannot speak for yourself. They matter while you are alive, which is the thing people least expect and the reason they are worth signing early.

    We are able to set up conference calls, video meetings, to design the plan, set up your plan, discuss the needs of your estate plan, and put the plan in place...

    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, 2021

  5. Signing, where you are

    A notary from the office comes to your home or your office. If there is a house, the deed goes into the trust at the same sitting.

    ...and then we send our notary out to your home or office and you get it signed.

    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, 2021

    If that deed is not there being signed at the same time, my team's done something wrong... to me, getting that property in the trust is everything. That is the whole point.

    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, on Probate Weekly, 2024

  6. Funding, which we do ourselves

    A trust nobody funded is an expensive set of papers.

    Funding means putting your house and your accounts into the trust. We do the transfer ourselves. It takes longer, and it is the reason the plan works on the day it is finished.

    Again, a lot of attorneys give you the fanciest binders with the best legal drafted documents, and they leave the client to do the actual funding or transfer of the asset. Well, I can tell you, when that takes place you've just spent a hefty amount of money on very fancy pieces of paper, but you will not have provided the protection that you were seeking for.

    Patrick P. Phancao, on camera, 2013

    At the Asset Protection Center, from its inception, we actually chose never to let that happen... because we do the actual transfer on behalf of the client(s), the whole process may actually take more time. However, that time is actually very well spent as it ensures that the client gets what we call a Fully Integrated Estate Plan. A Legal Plan that is fully operational the moment it is complete.

    From the firm's own newsletter, Protecting You and Yours, March 2017 (ESSAY ATTRIBUTION: PATRICK, CONFIRM WITH CLIENT)

    Going against 'common' practice in the legal profession, many attorneys had warned us that such practice would 'eat into the profits', be time consuming, and go unappreciated by clients. Well, over a decade into practice for ourselves, that is definitely a decision we have not regretted to date

    Same essay, March 2017
    Patrick P. Phancao
    Patrick P. Phancao, founding partner. Structures, business, advanced tax, and the questions about nursing homes, Medi-Cal, and the family house.

  7. And then it does not end

    The meetings that come later are part of the plan, and so is the call when something changes.

    I always tell clients when you're acquiring new assets, bank accounts, real property, businesses, you all should call us or your trust attorney because there are things that you need to do to make sure that asset is in the trust.

    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, on Probate Weekly, 2024

    When it begins again

    The children who sat in on the meetings become clients. The trustee who was walked through their duties calls back years later about their own family. The plan gets restated because a marriage happened, or did not last, or a grandchild arrived.

    Attorney Shaffer has been our estate planning attorney for over 15 years and has helped us restate our living trust twice. She has guided us based on our evolving needs and is always dedicated to the best work.

    Erin L. C., client

    This is why we have clients whose children become our clients, and then their children become our clients...

    Shadi Ala’i Shaffer

    The line does not stop here. It turns into the next generation and starts again.

One client's whole story, in his own words.

About two years ago I contacted APEL to inquire about a Living Trust/Will... I was inquiring for my aging father who has a disabled son (my brother) whom he cares for... They made the whole process very easy, but I got sidetracked and delayed the process. About a year later I reached out to them again, and again they whole process was a dream. Of course, I dropped the ball again, and delayed the process of finishing. Finally, after my father's health started to suddenly decline, I realized the gravity of situation for my brother. I am happy to say that I contacted APEL again, and this time I finished the really rather easy process of finalizing the Living Trust/Will. APEL was professional, kind, informative, and compassionate. I can't stress enough how patient they were with me.

Michael M., teacher, client

Most of what happens, happens after you sign.

We call it lifetime guidance. The later meetings are included in the original fee, and every client has it.

Included at the start

  • The planning itself
  • Notary fees
  • Deed transfer filing fees

Included later

  • A meeting with the well spouse if the other becomes ill or develops Alzheimer's
  • A meeting when the first spouse dies
  • A meeting when both have died
  • A meeting with the trustee

Because we're about this lifelong relationship, so we built in all those those services, and it's in our fee... I'm kind of all in and all all out. I don't do like piecemeal work... No, everyone in my all of our clients have that lifetime guidance.

Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, on Probate Weekly, 2024
The fee
(FEE, CLIENT TO SUPPLY)
It comes up at the second or the third meeting, once we know what your plan needs to do.
The first meeting
(IS THE FIRST CONSULTATION FREE, AND IS THAT STILL THE POLICY? CONFIRM WITH CLIENT)
Lifetime guidance
(LIFETIME GUIDANCE: CONFIRM IT IS CURRENT AND THAT THE FIRM WANTS IT NAMED PUBLICLY)
Publishing it is a promise, which is why it is written here rather than assumed.

A person, not a number.

Three people who do not know each other said the same thing in their own words.

I ended up even giving a deposit to a different law company and there was trouble getting the deposit back over time but I eventually got it back. But I found with them you were just a number but working with you and your firm, I felt like I was a person first.

Tom Gates, client

Patrick, Liz & Puneh, I really appreciated your firms friendly attitude and desire to help me. Everyone was great. I appreciate the return phone calls and follow up emails for status. Your willingness to meet my parents at their house is much appreciated... I felt like a friend and not just another client.

William R., client

I never thought that doing business with a legal organization could be so friendly, courteous and an overall good experience. I felt special!!

Janet K., client

Who you will meet.

Four attorneys and four staff. The first meeting is with one of the four attorneys.

Patrick P. Phancao
Patrick P. PhancaoFounding partner. Structures, business, advanced tax, Medi-Cal.
Shadi Ala’i Shaffer
Shadi Ala’i ShafferFounding partner. Trusts, probate, and the plans and the people.
Valerie L. Pasion
Valerie L. PasionPartner. In the firm's own words, "positioned under the firm's succession plan, ensuring clients will be serviced for years to come."
Shilpa Bhatt
Shilpa BhattAttorney. Laguna Beach office.

With Taline Arthur, Jay Singh, Carol Carranza, and Niki Moosavi. Both founders hold active California bar licenses, admitted in 2001 and 2002.

(NAME SPELLING UNCONFIRMED, rendered as "Shadi Ala’i Shaffer" per her own site heading)

If someone has just died

Well Rudy, first and foremost, I'm sorry to hear about your dad's passing.

Shadi Ala’i Shaffer, answering a caller on Trust Talk Radio

Somebody has died. There are notices that must go out by law, accounts nobody can touch, a house in one person's name, and a court process that may or may not be avoidable depending on what was set up years ago.

You do not need to understand any of that before you call.

If somebody has just died and you do not know what you are supposed to do first, start here, and start today. Some of these deadlines are short.

Call us today(714) 966-2646

At a time of tremendous stress and grief, Shadi guided me through the entire trust process with compassion and insight. Her ability to translate complex legal concepts into language that is comprehensible to the lay individual is nothing short of a gift!

Lisa P., client

Read first, call later.

It is the honest path for anyone who is not ready to talk to anybody yet, and most of the questions you have are already answered here, by the people who would be answering them in person.

I think with knowledge comes power, and with this educational format you will be able to learn quite a bit about the entire process before you ever step into an attorney's office to find out what it is that you really need or what instrument you may require.

Patrick P. Phancao, introducing the firm's own video channel, 2013
119 videos
On the firm's own channel, most of them Patrick's
Over 3,000
Subscribers to that channel
90 issues
Of a printed newsletter, Protecting You and Yours, still arriving
One book
How to Prepare for Life's Unknown, by Phancao and Shaffer

Start with the library

You have probably been meaning to do this for a while. Most people who call us have.

Start with a conversation. Nothing gets signed that day.

(714) 966-2646

Costa Mesa and Laguna Beach

Start with a conversationRead first, call later